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Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Gerhard Berger on Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:27 pm

Sakae wrote:
Gerhard Berger wrote:
Sakae wrote:Alonso can put spin on his relationship with Ferrari any way he wants, but fact remains, that he has not inspired people around him, nor he generated brainpower influx as Schumacher has, thus despite him allowing media finger-pointing at Ferrari, I think implications are, that he was a part of the problem as well. They should have let him go two to three years ago, methinks.


You can't say whether he has inspired the people around him, so that isn't a fact. Just your opinion.

As for generating a brainpower influx - he is not a hiring manager and nor will he ever be one. Many papers reported that he recommended that Ferrari sign Bell/Simmonds etc. but Domenicali ignored him.

I'm not sure how you think he was part of the problem - he was a top performer in the Ferrari organisation for the last 5 years. The problem was quite clearly on the technical side, as demonstrated by years of producing dud cars.

You're a Vettel fan, and in the next few years you will find out the hard way that a single driver can not turn around the fortunes of an entire team.

Results on the track, and heavy air in their relationships aren't on your side of the argument; opinion or not, these are plain facts for all to see. You are excusing the same old and failed thinking, which actually got in part Ferrari into this predicament, and yes, that's my opinion. SM realized that, and this is why some people aren't working there anymore.


Results on track are heavily influenced by factors other than the inspiration and morale of the the employees. It's not like a football match where inspirational speeches can win the day. F1 is a very technical sport and you need the right talent, the right processes, the right infrastructure etc. in order to win. The ultimate responsibility for this lies with the TP and not with the driver.

Facts are things like faulty wind tunnel and engine down on power. Surely you don't think Alonso was responsible for the calibration of the wind tunnel or the design or the turbo engine?
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Mach on Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:13 am

I thought Alonso did well for Ferrari considering how powerful the RBR and Mercedes teams were. He's watched all his allies leave, pushed out or sacked....so Alonso leaving to go elsewhere makes sense.

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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Mach on Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:48 pm

How many concussions has Alonso had?
Hopefully only 1
Hopefully Alonso passes his medical this Sunday and doesn't take too many unnecessary racing risks for the rest of his career.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Lawrence on Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:58 am

I do like the title of this tread. ;)
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Mach on Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:31 pm

Still waiting for todays medical test results to be announced
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Lawrence on Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:05 pm

Well, looks like Alonso is claiming that 2017 is his last season in F1. As I don't really see the McLaren-Honda running for the championship in 2016, then he will have one last year (2017) to take a crack at a third world championship. Great driver, very poor career management.

Anyhow, this thread is beginning to look prophetic.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Willie Caja on Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Yes. It looks like 2017 will be his last chance. (If he doesn't get tired sooner).
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Lawrence on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Willie Caja wrote:(If he doesn't get tired sooner).


To his credit, it does appear that he has given his all every season. I don't ever recall a lackluster season from him (unlike a certain Finnish driver or Vettel in 2014). Some of his most amazing seasons were the couple of years after he was fired by McLaren and had to return to an inferior car.

Well maybe 2017 will be a truly competitive season for several teams. Right now, I kind of expect 2016 to be between two teams, with Mercedes holding the edge.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Sakae on Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:17 pm

Despite the overwhelming disdain for Vettel's and Räikkönen's performances on this and several other forums, subtle or very direct comments about those two men has been rather excoriating. Vettel and Räikkönen are not just two racing drivers who have experienced a difficult year in their career for one reason or another, and all of it hardly justifiable for defaming totality of their accomplishments by any objective person. There was once a year 2008, then 2013, and perhaps some more could be found, when Alonso and Hamilton were "less than shiny", but that all is forgotten and ignored.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Lawrence on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:07 pm

Sakae wrote:There was once a year 2008, then 2013, and perhaps some more could be found, when Alonso and Hamilton were "less than shiny", but that all is forgotten and ignored.


Odd choices to make your argument. In 2008 Hamilton won the world championship with 5 wins and 98 points in close fought contest while his teammate Kovalainen had 1 win and 53 pts. In 2008 Alonso dominated his teammate with 2 wins and 61 pts over Piquet's 19 pts. In contrast that year, Massa had 6 wins and 97 pts over teammate Raikkonen who had 2 wins and 75 pts.

In 2013 Alonso had 2 wins and 242 pts compared to his teammate Massa who had 112 pts. Hamilton had 1 win and 189 pts compared to his teammate Rosberg who had 2 wins and 171 pts.

On the other hand, in 2014, the year I point out that Vettel did not perform his best, his teammate Ricciardo has 3 wins and 238 pts while Vettel had o wins and 167 pts (and could exercise the escape clause in his contract). In 2014 Alonso had 161 pts to Raikkonen's paltry 55 pts, and in 2015 so far, Vettel has had 3 wins at 236 pts to Raikkonen's 0 wins and 123 pts.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Sakae on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:59 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Sakae wrote:There was once a year 2008, then 2013, and perhaps some more could be found, when Alonso and Hamilton were "less than shiny", but that all is forgotten and ignored.


Odd choices to make your argument. In 2008 Hamilton won the world championship with 5 wins and 98 points in close fought contest while his teammate Kovalainen had 1 win and 53 pts. In 2008 Alonso dominated his teammate with 2 wins and 61 pts over Piquet's 19 pts. In contrast that year, Massa had 6 wins and 97 pts over teammate Raikkonen who had 2 wins and 75 pts.

In 2013 Alonso had 2 wins and 242 pts compared to his teammate Massa who had 112 pts. Hamilton had 1 win and 189 pts compared to his teammate Rosberg who had 2 wins and 171 pts.

On the other hand, in 2014, the year I point out that Vettel did not perform his best, his teammate Ricciardo has 3 wins and 238 pts while Vettel had o wins and 167 pts (and could exercise the escape clause in his contract). In 2014 Alonso had 161 pts to Raikkonen's paltry 55 pts, and in 2015 so far, Vettel has had 3 wins at 236 pts to Raikkonen's 0 wins and 123 pts.

I am surprised to read something like this, because anyone even with most rudimentary skills with data analysis would either do some more research on data input validation, or avoid such analysis (if we can call it as such at all), to begin with. Cliche comparing Apples and Oranges probably doesn't do justice to this case, and I have no more plans to elaborate on this subject either, because even at most fundamental level it's just plain waste of time. This is no analysis at all in my view, and repeating numbers on the record without understanding their meaning is - I think - meaningless. Different equipment, different conditions, etc. To get all of those variances on a common denominator and go through conversion adjustments through compensation quotients is not an easy task, and it takes little more than 5 min on the keyboard, not to say it carries a lot of subjectivity. Without counting points, 2008 for Alonso, and 2013 for Hamilton were lackluster years; that's a common knowledge in F1 circles, and there is no need to spend more time on that.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Lawrence on Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:43 pm

Sakae wrote:Without counting points, 2008 for Alonso, and 2013 for Hamilton were lackluster years; that's a common knowledge in F1 circles, and there is no need to spend more time on that.


In 2008 Alonso outperformed his teammate and in 2013 Hamilton performed as well as or outperformed his teammate. In 2014 Vettel was outperformed by his teammate, and was true for Raikkonnen in 2014 and 2015. You objected to me noting their substandard performance in 2014 and 2015 and offered 2008 and 2013 as a rebuttal. I don't think you have much of a rebuttal.
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Mach on Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:14 pm

Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship? :reallyevil:

No :reallyevil:

Now Ron has has asked Nando to take a sabbatical for 2016 :reallyevil:
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Willie Caja on Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:23 pm

Ron should better find sponsors for the team instead of making cryptic suggestions...
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Re: Will Alonso Ever Win Another World Championship?

Postby Mach on Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:00 am

Willie Caja wrote:Ron should better find sponsors for the team instead of making cryptic suggestions...
YEAH!!!! Like a travel agency sponsor. Then they can take care of Fernando's 1-year vacation :dance:
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