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Sebastian Vettel

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:44 am

It has been said by Horner and others, that Webber disobeyed team several times during his tenure with RBR. Neither he, or media care to speak about it, and apparently, whilst he seems to got away with it, his teammate has truck-full of mud on him. One could rationalize that Vettel under those circumstances, might have very few options either to keep his career alive, or let others to stamp on him. Whilst not very common, in retrospect, getting involved his lawyer and respond quietly behind the scene, that is, until Webber decided to publish it, was perhaps a better solution, than mounting some useless counter-campaign in public. Vettel was aware of Webber's infractions and how those were treated, and then he compared notes, and got p***ed. Blame him. Occassionally I wondered if it was Marko who let a few skeletons out of Weber's closet, and made Vettel aware what went on the otherside of garage, which would explain why Vettel told Webber off about a week later after the incident. At the end, RBR appeared for some strange reasons not too upset when Vettel and them collected a few trophies, and hugging in public continued.

When we speak about nastiness, how about being abused by a team receiving unfair treatment? Should a driver take it, or run to a nearest microphone and mount another media whining campaign? How about Webber's partner demanding "punishment" for Vettel? Did she run RBR to even place a such, what in substance is a nasty call? Should Vettel's father called Horner and asked similar questions? Point is, we heard one side of the issue, and therefore maybe it is too soon to speak about nasty side of a nasty business, because nothing good will come out of it, I suspect.

Then, you have 2014 - a few times he was asked to let DR pass, and no lawyers were called in. He made a differet decision, as we know today.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:46 am

I am sorry, but Vettel does come off a little spoilt, self-centered, ruthless and nasty at times. More so than drivers like Hamilton and Rosberg, although not quite to the same depth as Alonso. "Pure and Chaste" certainly can't be an argument you can make in his favor. It does make me wonder once again if in 2014 he deliberately underperformed so he could exercise the option in the his contract with Red Bull that allowed him to leave.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:49 am

Sure, and while you are at it, don't let him off the hook for causing Famine in Sudan as well.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Mach on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:07 am

Lawrence wrote:It does make me wonder once again if in 2014 he deliberately underperformed so he could exercise the option in the his contract with Red Bull that allowed him to leave.
Interesting theory. I'm just glad Ferrari signed him up.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:51 pm

Mach wrote:
Lawrence wrote:It does make me wonder once again if in 2014 he deliberately underperformed so he could exercise the option in the his contract with Red Bull that allowed him to leave.
Interesting theory. I'm just glad Ferrari signed him up.

Accordingly, it must have been clear then to everyone involved that Alonso is leaving Maranelo, and thus vacating his seat already in Feb 2014, which made it possible for Vettel to break the car several times in each weekend, and orchestrate his contractual exit. Interesting theory indeed in fantasy land.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Mach on Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:25 pm

It certainly is fantasy land for Kimi....the way the media and Ferrari are orchestrating his early departure.....once again :propeller:
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:11 pm

Mach wrote:It certainly is fantasy land for Kimi....the way the media and Ferrari are orchestrating his early departure.....once again :propeller:

This is thread about Seb, but since you mentioned, I do agree with you. Media favoritism agendas, pressure on officials, and padddock politics is however nothing new. To add, and Paolo 2 eluded to it in his race narrative, Kimi might be not a such "Iceman" as purported. His mind is not quiet by all what's happening to him, and he probably feels that he has no control over his racing life. Lauda and Totto has done it to Rosberg, and now MA and SM I think repeated the same mistake on Kimi. There is quite a few recent incidents and reaction it generated easily leading into this conclusion.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Mach on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:19 pm

Yes, it's easier for team to blame Kimi than admit they still can't get a responsive front end in the car to Kimis liking
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Bourbon on Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:12 am

Sakae wrote:
Mach wrote:It certainly is fantasy land for Kimi....the way the media and Ferrari are orchestrating his early departure.....once again :propeller:

This is thread about Seb, but since you mentioned, I do agree with you. Media favoritism agendas, pressure on officials, and padddock politics is however nothing new. To add, and Paolo 2 eluded to it in his race narrative, Kimi might be not a such "Iceman" as purported. His mind is not quiet by all what's happening to him, and he probably feels that he has no control over his racing life. Lauda and Totto has done it to Rosberg, and now MA and SM I think repeated the same mistake on Kimi. There is quite a few recent incidents and reaction it generated easily leading into this conclusion.


I think that Ferrari has finally caught on to that and hopefully the media will take their cue and leave him alone for a while. Sebastian, always supportive, was overtly so the last 3 weeks or so. But when we got to Silverstone, the media was back on it, asking him the same questions and he finally showed annoyance. Maybe Ferrari begins to understand that it isn't just impacting Kimi, but the rest of the team as well. It's been going on since April which is just ridiculous. The reason it evolved into such a big deal is because MA kept sounding off at every turn, publicly making negative comments and threats. Of course that impacts the driver. It is quite anger inducing.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:02 am

Bourbon wrote:
Sakae wrote:
Mach wrote:It certainly is fantasy land for Kimi....the way the media and Ferrari are orchestrating his early departure.....once again :propeller:

This is thread about Seb, but since you mentioned, I do agree with you. Media favoritism agendas, pressure on officials, and padddock politics is however nothing new. To add, and Paolo 2 eluded to it in his race narrative, Kimi might be not a such "Iceman" as purported. His mind is not quiet by all what's happening to him, and he probably feels that he has no control over his racing life. Lauda and Totto has done it to Rosberg, and now MA and SM I think repeated the same mistake on Kimi. There is quite a few recent incidents and reaction it generated easily leading into this conclusion.


I think that Ferrari has finally caught on to that and hopefully the media will take their cue and leave him alone for a while. Sebastian, always supportive, was overtly so the last 3 weeks or so. But when we got to Silverstone, the media was back on it, asking him the same questions and he finally showed annoyance. Maybe Ferrari begins to understand that it isn't just impacting Kimi, but the rest of the team as well. It's been going on since April which is just ridiculous. The reason it evolved into such a big deal is because MA kept sounding off at every turn, publicly making negative comments and threats. Of course that impacts the driver. It is quite anger inducing.
I have made the same kind of observation about MA, who is under heavy influence of SM, and I fear mgt course taken with Kimi is on borderline between deliberate, and potentially on poor side.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:23 pm

Sakae wrote:Sure, and while you are at it, don't let him off the hook for causing Famine in Sudan as well.


Don't think he had anything to do with Sudan.... but he did knock his teammate off the track at least once, something that I don't recall Hamilton ever doing.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:30 pm

Mach wrote:
Lawrence wrote:It does make me wonder once again if in 2014 he deliberately underperformed so he could exercise the option in the his contract with Red Bull that allowed him to leave.
Interesting theory. I'm just glad Ferrari signed him up.


Hypothesis. A theory would imply some real data. The only data we have is:

1) He negotiates his own contracts.
2) The contract had an exit clause if he was below 3rd in the points.
3) He was unhappy with the car and team.
4) He suddenly underperformed compared to his much less heralded teammate.
5) He came in 5th in the points and then cancelled the contract to go to Ferrari.
6) When he got to Ferrari, he suddenly performed again.

So...... conjecture. Certainly not enough data for a theory, but certainly enough to justifiably raise eyebrows. If the guy can call in his lawyers on the team he has been driving for since he was a teen... then it is certainly not inconceivable that he would operate with such "forethought" (read: ruthlessness).
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:36 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Sakae wrote:Sure, and while you are at it, don't let him off the hook for causing Famine in Sudan as well.


Don't think he had anything to do with Sudan.... but he did knock his teammate off the track at least once, something that I don't recall Hamilton ever doing.
Glass half empty. If you are reffering to incident in Turkey 2010, Horner once commented, that neither of drivers involved were willing to accept full or partial responsibility for it. Now, I am almost sure similar accidents occured before, and after, and probably will happen also in the future with him, or other drivers. What else you have?
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:47 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Mach wrote:
Lawrence wrote:It does make me wonder once again if in 2014 he deliberately underperformed so he could exercise the option in the his contract with Red Bull that allowed him to leave.
Interesting theory. I'm just glad Ferrari signed him up.


Hypothesis. A theory would imply some real data. The only data we have is:

1) He negotiates his own contracts.
2) The contract had an exit clause if he was below 3rd in the points.
3) He was unhappy with the car and team.
4) He suddenly underperformed compared to his much less heralded teammate.
5) He came in 5th in the points and then cancelled the contract to go to Ferrari.
6) When he got to Ferrari, he suddenly performed again.

So...... conjecture. Certainly not enough data for a theory, but certainly enough to justifiably raise eyebrows. If the guy can call in his lawyers on the team he has been driving for since he was a teen... then it is certainly not inconceivable that he would operate with such "forethought" (read: ruthlessness).


Some people want to have it both ways.

1. DR is magnificent and destroyed Vettel by sheer skills. (Doubtful, I say, but it comforts certain mindsets).
2. Now it is claimed, Vettel cheated to get out of his contract. (Doubtful, I say, but I like humor).

I am however also confused. So, what is it? It cannot be both ways. I certainly have no access to Vettel's contract, and those who know, I doubt they would risk it, and in ref. to exit clause, talk about it, and reveal content of confidential documents in public.
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Re: Sebastian Vettel

Postby Lawrence on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:25 pm

Sakae wrote:Some people want to have it both ways.

1. DR is magnificent and destroyed Vettel by sheer skills. (Doubtful, I say, but it comforts certain mindsets).
2. Now it is claimed, Vettel cheated to get out of his contract. (Doubtful, I say, but I like humor).

I am however also confused. So, what is it? It cannot be both ways. I certainly have no access to Vettel's contract, and those who know, I doubt they would risk it, and in ref. to exit clause, talk about it, and reveal content of confidential documents in public.


Well, I don't think DR is magnificent (otherwise, so to would be Kvyat). Clearly Vettel was in a slump last year caused by either: 1) could not come to grips with the car, 2) was demotivated or 3) wanted to get out of his contract.

Still suspect it was primarily #2...but can't rule out #3 (which may related to #2).
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