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Red Bull Crisis?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:01 pm

So, what is the answer?
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:21 am

I have no idea, but Bernie said it was solved two weeks ago, and now Helmut is saying the same. So it must be solved.

I gather it is continue with Renault for Red Bull and year old Ferrari engines for Toro Rosso.

The rumor out now is the drama was all caused by Red Bull thinking they had VW lined up for 2018, so they told Renault to go take a hike and figured Mercedes was going to provide them with an interim engine (and then Ferrari). Have not idea if this rumor is anymore true than the rest.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Big leap of faith...GP247

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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:51 pm

Well, they have said they are staying, even though they still have not sorted out the engine deal (and have gone back to Renault on their knees?). In the end, a lot of bluff that did not work. I did not have a high opinion of Marko before this current saga.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:15 pm

I am going to refrain from judging Dr. Marko, but two points regarding optics: (i) we, public, really do not know all facts of this case, and (ii) name Marko has been associated often with many evils in F1/RBR, which puts me on guard how much objective perception is there in terms of facts and myths when we talk about that person.
Media, and I include Webber, IMO almost always trying to make Horner clean, and Dr. Marko a dirty one. I have problem with that kind of reporting and destruction of one's image. At the end, they are both agents of one DM, who used to be, until recently, known as a very much hands-on man. I seriously doubt that line management of RBR acts unrestrained and without rudder, as opposed to being mere reflection of the owner's mood.

Ecclestone is again in headlines, that he is not sure whether RBR will be on the grid in 2016. Taking sabatical is possibility.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:54 pm

Well, it ain't resolved yet. This is getting pretty embarrassing.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:43 am

“I’ve always said that we are always open,” Honda’s F1 chief Yasuhisa Arai told Speed Week correspondent Agnes Carlier in an interview. “So we are currently in talks.

“It is my responsibility to listen to these questions and respond to them. No matter what happens, it will not alter the fact that McLaren is the official Honda factory team,” the Japanese added.

En savoir plus sur http://www.thisisf1.com/2015/11/03/red- ... ZSRlgjK.99


If "McLaren is the official Honda factory team", then it sounds to me as it is rather Honda, and not McLaren, who should make a call what's going on in that garage.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:56 pm

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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lyria on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:33 pm

It's getting to the point of decision time now. If Red Bull don't soon sort something out I think they will have to quit F1. You need an engine to compete but they have done exactly as you suggest Sakae, they have painted themselves into a corner so I can't feel sorry for them. They have aliented one engine supplier after another, insulted them, called them unfair, branded their engines no good etc. So if they go I have to say it will be their own fault in a lot of ways. It will be sad for their employees of course, but the management have brought this all on themselves.

If Honda or Renault do come to their rescue in the end, and I'm not so sure either will, good for them. Do they deserve it to happen? I'm not so sure they do in a lot of ways but for the sake of F1 it would be better if they're still racing I suppose.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:53 pm

Lyria wrote:It's getting to the point of decision time now. If Red Bull don't soon sort something out I think they will have to quit F1. You need an engine to compete but they have done exactly as you suggest Sakae, they have painted themselves into a corner so I can't feel sorry for them. They have aliented one engine supplier after another, insulted them, called them unfair, branded their engines no good etc. So if they go I have to say it will be their own fault in a lot of ways. It will be sad for their employees of course, but the management have brought this all on themselves.

If Honda or Renault do come to their rescue in the end, and I'm not so sure either will, good for them. Do they deserve it to happen? I'm not so sure they do in a lot of ways but for the sake of F1 it would be better if they're still racing I suppose.


Hi Lyria

The RBR owner extended decision whether to go or stay by another two weeks (till mid Nov), therefore implications is, that they do expect some movement from somebody, but I would be darn if I have a sniff what's going on. Ecclestone being Ecclestone, one day he is being quoted RB could take sabbatical for a year or two, today I read that he is now of opinion that sabbatical is out of the question, so, what's next? Isn't that fun?
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby sjwk on Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:19 pm

I see that Red Bull have finally got their propulsion system sorted for next year.

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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Paolo 2 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:58 pm

I guess that they will buy some old Renault engines and rebrand them "Red Bull" and hope for the better
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Lawrence on Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:46 pm

sjwk wrote:I see that Red Bull have finally got their propulsion system sorted for next year.


;)
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby Sakae on Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:12 am

Additional light on some of the challenges RBR might face next year, and underlying difficulties for the engine mfg. (Ferrari was once explaining, whilst many refused to understand).
TECHNICAL ANALYSIS: RED BULL AT RISK OF MISSING 2016 FORMULA 1 TESTING?

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/11/technical-analysis-red-bull-at-risk-of-missing-2016-formula-1-testing/

DH: As an engine manufacturer, until you sign a contract with somebody, you are not going to start cutting metal in terms of blocks, crankshafts, rods, pistons. They are not going to have huge amounts of those things lying around anyway. So to suddenly extend a programme, particularly if it’s say, Honda, could be taxing to set up another support operation.

Honda, IMO, within context could be replaced by any other mfg.
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Re: Red Bull Crisis?

Postby pob on Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:31 am

According to thejudge13, Red Bull will be running their own PU next year starting from the Renault as a base. I don't think the article is right to say that the latest Renault upgrade has Illien's ideas in it, as I think Renault went their own way in the end, but everything else seems to fit what's been going on. It may also explain Red Bull's reluctance to run their Renault upgrade, as otherwise they may be able to use those tokens for their own development program. I also think the brinkmanship, rather than being down to an argument about the IP rights, is actually to make sure the FIA and other teams agree to there effectively being two development programs of the Renault PU.
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