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How Would You Change F1?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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How Would You Change F1?

Postby Lyria on Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:39 pm

So we've seen the fan surveys and it seems most people agree that F1 needs to change, though how is very much open to debate still obviously. I was wondering, what would you change in F1 if you had the power.

I think both Nigel Mansell and Christian Horner make good points about the way things should go. No more preserving tyres and conserving fuel, that isn't what F1 was ever about years ago it and it shouldn't be that way now! Make the cars harder to drive again so we're impressed by those drivers who can tame the beasts and give us some good passing action and so on along the way! I know safety is a priority and they've come a long way in recent years on that, but what we have now is almost embarrassing, I'm not asking drivers to risk their lives again but I would like some more excitement and the best drivers to win, not just those who can press the correct combination of buttons at the right time which is how it seems to be lately

Nigel Mansell wrote: Former world champion Nigel Mansell says Formula 1 is in need of a "bit of magic" to liven it up.

Mercedes duo Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg are dominating the 2015 campaign, just as they did last year.

Mansell, 61, says it is time to "let the drivers drive and race like we did" in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

The 1992 world champion says modern F1 cars have become too easy to control and that "drivers can drive with a couple of fingers".

The Briton wants to ditch the Drag Reduction System that aids overtaking and says tyres need to have more grip.

"Then if a driver wants to deliver the car into a corner and brake really late, put the power on and get sideways, he can do it," he explained.

"It's very exciting for the fans to watch that."


Christian Horner wrote:Christian Horner says F1 "needs to be a flat-out sprint race from start to finish" after the drab Canadian Grand Prix led to criticism about the current spectacle.

On top of Mercedes recording an easy one-two, the Montreal race was dominated by drivers being told to lift and coast to preserve fuel. The predominance of the one-stop strategy also limited entertainment as the Canadian event failed to live up to expectations.
After the race, Horner said there are multiple issues F1 needs to address to improve the show.

"I think we had more downforce a few years ago that abused the tyres a bit more but I think one-stop races are not good for F1 - you need to have two-three stops - and that's important," he said. "We have tyres that are just a bit too conservative. I think the other thing that's not good for F1 is fuel saving - it should be a sprint race and 'lift and coast' doesn't belong in a sprint race, that's not the message F1 should be putting across."

Pressed on whether he had a solution, Horner replied: "Shorten the race by five laps or whatever it is. Either a bit more fuel or a bit less distance, but it needs to be a flat-out sprint race from start to finish."
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:18 pm

Difficult question, for each of us are seeking different thrill. For start I would suggest to attack engines (Pareto principle). Right now it is imbalances in PU area which are muddying waters. Two drivers are cruising because others can't touch and push them, but get others on their tail, and that will put end to cruising.

Rather than to run into thousand different directions, I would suggest open development, and let other engine suppliers to get approx. at the same level. That will fix probably those 20%, clears the fog, and let us see what else needs to be done for better show. After engines we would have to go through second and third iterations, until we get it right. It is an incremental process.

Renault, Ferrari, and Honda made mistakes with their approach, and now it is killing F1. I am not for specification series, nor the same engine power, but there is no opportunity for people to have this corrected to its full extend, that's the issue. (Forget tokens). We have never had such mess, despite that through history as we all know, some teams have done better job than others, but road to recovery was open and had green light for all. Then probably I would open for next two years developments on and off the track for teams to sort out whatever they need to. Last step in (say Phase 1) I would welcome new engine/team supplier with special considerations for assimilation with the pack for period of two years. (Discreet set of rules regarding their development).

It is my contention that some "cruising" accusation is based on lack of competitiveness. Why would a front runner with 20 sec gap risk reliability problems, pushing like crazy, when no one can come even close to him due to inferior equipment? After all, Mansell also said, several current drivers, not just Hamilton, could perform at the same level in that car.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Mach on Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:01 pm

Reduce the amount of turbulent air coming off the rear of the cars to promote passing from the following cars.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Lyria on Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:20 pm

The cars are too easy to drive these days, that needs to change because they never used to be.

Mach wrote:Reduce the amount of turbulent air coming off the rear of the cars to promote passing from the following cars.


Yes, I agree and that would allow them to get rid of the stupid DRS as well!
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:11 pm

Addition thoughts - within context of F1 future, abolish usage of words and associated concepts such as:

- limits
- restrictions
- parc fermé
- savings (be it money, fuel, etc.)*





___________

* Please note that I am not advocating unlimited spending. There is more natural concept how to keep spending in check in lieu of an arbitrary, process damaging budget cap. Tire wear of course has to be managed, not saved from Q3 onwards.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:18 pm

Lowdon
"But if you really studied the fundamentals, you see a lot of the focus is on solutions to things that aren't actually the core problem.

"One of the big assets of F1 is its ability to solve problems that are really clever: technical, commercial, political and legal. The people in F1 are brilliant in solving problems, but the exact problem has to be correctly defined for them to solve.

"What we are seeing is that a lot of time is being incurred by people to solve problems which are not actually a priority."

Hmm, that's what I thought. You need fresh visionary who will define what kind of racing series this should be, and only then one can begin working towards that objective. If you prefer bandage solutions, then you go to my first post in this thread, clear the fog, get PUs out of the equation, and see what's next on the plate. These are however technical solutions. Legal, political, commercial...beats me what to do with F1, as long as bankers or an equity owns it. They are in the business to skim the cream, not to save Manor or alike, regardless how shortsighted that might appear to others. Perhaps different ownership would help, permitting stakeholders to take care of their own business.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Lawrence on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:23 pm

Said Mosley: "I agree with the hybrids in F1, but I think the fundamental error was to not put a cap on spending."

Christ, never thought Mosley and I would be on the same page.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:34 am

I should amend my post in topic - how to improve F1 - with - never listen MM!

Budget cap is bad. People do not learn either because they are not capable of it, or do not want to, for real solution is inconvenient to them. If one realizes the current engine homologation has done some damage to principles of competitiveness, budget cap is even worse, and it will leave a lot of people stuck with unfinished business on the track, because despite having (corrective) solutions in hand, they will be not allowed to spend more funds for remedial steps. Forget about improvements - no funds, and so on. What kind of mess it will create on the track is anyone's guess. Humans make mistakes. People pushing technological boundaries do make mistakes. Permitting them to commit mistakes is healthy for the process. Artificially low budget cap is cancerous solution and a roadblock to technological edge, especially when no-one knows what that figure should be, how to enforce it evenly, and in fair manner. It is an unhelpful solution to what appears, at least in my perception, a badly defined problem in hand.

Effective solutions worth pursuit IMHO shall:

- re-write CA
- change F1 ownership to someone who has an interest in F1 longevity and prosperity
- fundamentally change normative references (tech., sporting - key term, simplification)
- re-organize organizational charts (some of former MM friends are there too long)

I see a budget cap as anti-manufacturer's strategy, forcing them into exodus, because they will ultimately leave, if deprived of shine. Finally, there is nowhere written, that I have to watch F1 forever.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Lyria on Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:26 pm

There is talk that CVC's share could be bought out by the guy who owns the Miami Dolphins football team, Stephen Ross, along with a group from Qatar. If that happens, it seems Bernie will still be in charge though, so nothing much will really change then :roll: I mean it might mean F1 is pushed more in the USA but other than that I don't see the point really.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33249041
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:17 pm

Rumors picking up on intensity about reportedly there are several other bidders, some of those rather (allegedly) surprising names. Most sensational is a claim, that top four teams are lining up to buy it (or into it).

Yes, their money were invested, and they should have control over their own destiny, but no more Strategy Group nonsence, please. There has to be proper steering committee at the rudder. I would like that.

Having admitted as much, actually I do not believe this scenario will realize. Individual rhetoric and public posturing either would prove that they are all very good actors, or, what is more likely, they are in odds with each other, and hate each other with passion, so no unity front on this one crucial issue.


...but, I think some changes are coming, and lets hope they will be more than just cosmetic (or 1 Aspirin), despite Todt's assurances that all what F1 needs right now is to cure hedache and nothing much more.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:41 am

More improvements for F1 of a kind I may live with...New (and improved) Strategy Group
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Mafia on Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:18 pm

Here is a cheap and cheerful formula i posted in comments of another website....

- Ditch energy recovery,
- Ditch the V6,
- Keep current aero configuration,
- Bring back good old cheap 3ltr v10's, Sound and power issue sorted,
- Keep DRS (To shut people up who moan about no overtaking)
- Reinstate refueling
- Remove all the run off areas from all the tracks and bring gravel traps back to discipline drivers (*Cough* Max and Pastor)
- Open all kind of radio conversation and dont filter words with beep
- 1hr (12 laps) qualifying format
- No engine/gearbox penalties (Let them race for God sake)
Tough Luck!
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Mafia on Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:47 pm

Ahem. Usually i wont quote arguments from another forums or discussion board, but one guy really had me going....




Avatar
BraveHeart • 6 hours ago

Here is a cheap and cheerful formula....

- Ditch energy recovery,
- Ditch the V6,
- Keep current aero configuration,
- Bring back good old cheap 3ltr v10's, Sound and power issue sorted,
- Keep DRS (To shut people up who moan about no overtaking)
- Reinstate refueling
- Remove all the run off areas from all the tracks and bring gravel traps back to discipline drivers (*Cough* Max and Pastor)
- Open all kind of radio conversation and dont filter words with beep
- 1hr (12 laps) qualifying format
- No engine/gearbox penalties (Let them race for God sake)

2

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F1 Engineer > BraveHeart • 27 minutes ago

How bout you go jump in a time machine and go back to 1996

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BraveHeart > F1 Engineer • 4 minutes ago

:)

Usually given the trend of online forums and boards, one should get really
offensive in reply to a post but, I would like to thank you for this
opportunity for me to explain few things here.

I would love to to back to 1996 or whichever year but I cant since all the
engineers (F1 or else) haven’t come up with a time machine yet, instead they
are busy creating cunning ways to generate energy from breaking, engines,
blinking eyes, bowl movement and God knows what’s not, to make F1 more boring
for a simple fan, like myself, who don’t care about environment and just tune
into to TV after every couple of weeks, not to see (Note:1>) some tree
hugging, toad loving machines going round and round, but an hour and a bit of
real Men slugging it out using brains and balls rather than buttons.

Sometime, in order to move in the right direction, you have to take a step
back.

A friend of mine, finally agreed to sit and watch his first ever grand Prix
last time around. so as a pre-race briefing about how the sport works was a
mandatory thing. After me explaining why its called a “Formula`” and teams and
drivers, the toughness and the tenderness, goods and bads, rules and
regulations, tracks, drivers, teams and points system, 50 place grid penalties
for a team, he asked me “Why so many penalties? And instead of making them go
around the back ally (I assume by which he meant pit lane) during the race to
waste time, why don’t they start from the back straight, that should be about 50
cars length back”. I was like… Screw this, and changed the channel. Cricket
seems more simple and interesting to explain after that!

I loved the sport, for 26 years, never missed an event live
or on TV. First time this year I found cleaning my car over the weekend is a
bit more fun than … (please read Note:1 again :)

So. As soon as you can build me one (still talking about
time machine) the amount of money I paid for this year official (Cr)app (Whole
3300 pennies), I will pay you to send me back to … errr 1996 is it?
Tough Luck!
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Sakae on Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:36 am

Like most of things, F1 is a subject of evolution. Today's racing cars are different from those seen in GP some hundred years ago during first racing events on continental EU, and there is no way turning clock back, to state obvious. We are heading down the road to four cylinders, or even fully electric cars, and sooner we stop torturing ourselves with unrealistic scenarios, sooner we can clear our minds and refocus to other matters. I seriously doubt that I could detect cars are 6 sec slower nowadays, than in the past, until my attention was directed to it, however what I can detect are anomalies in normative references, such as gap maintenance and cruising that follows instead racing, testing on Sunday instead racing, and similar trends. In nostalgia department I miss times when Prost and Senna were racing, having certain Benetton closing on them, but it was then. It's not difficult to identify transitional causes which moved us where we were to where we are, and accept, that some of those changes were inevitable, others turned out were mistakes, which need correction. Anything but knee-jerk reaction and shotgun approach.
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Re: How Would You Change F1?

Postby Mach on Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:16 pm

I just read the GPDA results. Yes, results cover a very large spectrum.....but the most disturbing thing to me is the lack of new/younger audience :yaynot:
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