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2015 British GP

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby f1datavis on Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Sakae wrote:There is no need for me to apologize for being a fan of one driver, and feel indifferent to other two...
'Indifferent'?
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Paul on Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:36 pm

Indifferent, as in not give a crap :hihi:
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Mach on Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:10 am

Sakae wrote:There is no need for me to apologize for being a fan of one driver, and feel indifferent to other two.
Agreed
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lyria on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:53 am

f1datavis wrote:
Agree completely, he is an average person from Stevenage. But Lyria said that this wasn't true, and that he came from a posh village outside the town. It's rubbish. I also very much dislike being dismissed as a "true fan".


I didn't say he never came from Stevenage at all, that is the only part they want to tell you though as it makes for a better story, there is another side though is all I was saying, they just dimiss that completely. I also know his father worked hard to get him where he is, I have never disputed that or claimed otherwise.

I certainly didn't dismiss you as being a true fan of his either, what I said is there are groups of people who go the F1 who aren't genuine F1 fans and are more likely to support Hamilton than others as his name is the only one they know. I didn't say that is true of all fans, I said some. It's not just Hamilton it's happened to either, it's happened to Button as well but Hamilton is the current holder of that title. Not all people who go to Wimbledon and cheer on Andy Murray are true tennis fans or fans of his, they go because it's a nice place to go for a nice event and he's the 'local hero' for want of a better term, it's the same with this weekend at Silverstone. It happens at any major sporting event the world over, you get those who are there for the event rather than as genuine fans of the sport. That doesn't mean everyone at Silverstone or all Hamilton fans are like that, of course they're not, but a percentage are and if you think that doesn't happen I'd say you're very naive.

There are genuine Hamilton fans, I never said there wasn't and I wouldn't try to say so, ever!!

As for my dislike of him, read the forum and you will find that even though I can't stand him (to the point when he's talking on screen I mute the tv) if he drives well you'll find I've said so on here several times. I might dislike the guy but I am not blind to his talents. I have complained about some of the things he's done on track, but I've also done the same about other drivers when they drive in a way I find stupid and/or dangerous. That is called having an opinion, we're all entitled to one and just because you don't like mine doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong, nor would I say you were wrong for yours. It might differ to mine but as I've said many times, we're all allowed them and if we all agreed we wouldn't have much to discuss would we now?

I am sorry if you in any way feel driven away from the forum by my dislike of Hamilton, I can't change my opinion on the guy though, I feel what I feel and I am just as entitled to post those views/feelings, the same as those people who came on here a while ago specifically to say nasty things about Vettel. Like I said, they're all entitled to think what they like.

Oh and one other thing just so we're clear, I've never said a word about where Hamilton now lives or his tax status or anything else like that, period!
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:55 am

f1datavis wrote:
Sakae wrote:There is no need for me to apologize for being a fan of one driver, and feel indifferent to other two...
'Indifferent'?
The enjoyment polarization race is supposed to deliver, be it in absolute or relative terms, is non existent on my part in the case of certain drivers. Take it as statement of facts, rather then some deep philosophical position. If I wouldn't run into myriad of exaggerated headlines and pompous narratives, I would see it merely as a better world. To clarify, it's not about hate or some other extremes, but all about tolerable personal comfort. Watching Vettel turning lap after lap is all what makes me tuning in. There are of course quite a few other drivers who do contribute to the show without being controversial, and that makes my day "at the races" complete. New generation is here, and so far so good.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:33 pm

It's odd that a thread about the British GP has turned into a discussion about Hamilton, maybe this speaks volumes about F1 these days. I only managed to watch Q3 and I did so while having lunch but it didn't really look like a classic, I'm sort of glad that I didn't go. Hamilton drove ok, but the others didn't fare any better, on the contrary, and it looked to me as if they were making many small mistakes in places that shouldn't have been affected by wind. I'm wondering what was the potential of Massa today because it looked as if during his second run in Q3 the track had lost a few tenths of a second, a more focused driver would have probably been closer to the Mercs during the first attempt. This brings me to Bottas, who is a very nice chap and a very very solid driver who very rarely makes any mistake but who also doesn't really seem to have much speed in him, maybe that's why he's so looked after by teams, he's a perfect #2 driver, you don't even need to issue team orders with him as he can't keep up with a first tier team mate (in case the team mate was someone like Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso). Raikkonen did well, I'm glad for him, but was it too little too late? It just proves that when he's focused he can make, pity he doesn't seem to focus much these days.

Since we've been talking about Hamilton lately, I love watching him drive, I think that he's a genius behind the wheel, I'm just not particularly fond of him when he starts talking. And I don't like the fact that too often Mercedes has given him what I consider to be an unfair advantage over his team mate. I also think that he needs someone like his father besides him, he needs someone who can calm him down and make him see sense, I used to think that his dad was a bit too much in the spotlight but I am now regretting that he seems to have vanished, IMHO he could have helped Lewis a lot in the last few years.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lyria on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:15 pm

The wind had changed and that was what caused the drivers issues it seems. A lot of drivers lost their best time due to crossing the line at turn 9, I did feel for Perez when he lost his bet time and dropped out of the top ten shoot out. Apparently Alonso qualified with one of Button's tyres. McLaren have confirmed they made a mistake and now he's got a grid penalty for that!! Poor Alonso, the guy has no luck at all lately does he?

As DC pointed out, just yelling that you can't drive the car as Verstappen did isn't helpful, he needs to be trying to figure out why he can't and how they might fix the issue. Verstappen is very young in years and in terms of experience but what DC made sense and was good advice in my opinion, I hope someone tells him that and he listens, it could be useful to him in the future.

I was surprised to see the Williams were faster than the Ferraris if I'm honest, even more so that Massa got ahead of Bottas again. I can't figure out if Bottas isn't doing as well as he was, or if Massa has upped his game, maybe it's a bit of both. I did think Rosberg was going steal pole there for a while but he didn't manage it, a valiant effort by him all the same.

Oh and see, the :sun: does shine in England sometimes and even when a major sporting event happens as well ;) Miracles do happen :hihi: Though I do feel for those who were camping there last night, if they got the storms we did, and I'm sure they would have as I think most of the country got them, that really can't have been nice.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lawrence on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:14 pm

f1datavis wrote:What riles me most is that I adore watching a grand Prix of 20 plus brilliant drivers, even the pay ones. I can play okay tennis, kick a football as good as most, but I am certain I couldn't make an F1 go round the block, let alone blast through Stowe in 5th. "True fans like Vettel", yep hands up - he's deffo one skilled lad. But also liking and enjoying Hamilton's success, don't go there...


I understand exactly what you mean (or at least I understand what I think you mean). Unfortunately, human beings are not particularly objective, if they like someone, they often tend to think he is better than he is..... and conversely then tend to think his main competitors are not as good, overrated, or not decent people. Now, certainly some F1 drivers are not good people (maybe as many as half in this current field), but there is not a shortage of talent. We know for a fact that Hamilton and Alonso compare well with each other, and it appears that Raikonen does not compare as well with either Alonso or Vettel...beyond that, there is some speculation and lots of sniping. But, it is the nature of humans to have their biases until some real event clearly establishes the truth.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby IanK on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:12 pm

Lyria wrote:just yelling that you can't drive the car as Verstappen did isn't helpful


Well, the problem there is he's a Verstappen and over the past decade or so there's been a trend toward replacing gravel traps with paved runoff areas. He just doesn't know what to do when there's nowhere to beach his car.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:18 am

Lawrence wrote:
f1datavis wrote:What riles me most is that I adore watching a grand Prix of 20 plus brilliant drivers, even the pay ones. I can play okay tennis, kick a football as good as most, but I am certain I couldn't make an F1 go round the block, let alone blast through Stowe in 5th. "True fans like Vettel", yep hands up - he's deffo one skilled lad. But also liking and enjoying Hamilton's success, don't go there...


I understand exactly what you mean (or at least I understand what I think you mean). Unfortunately, human beings are not particularly objective, if they like someone, they often tend to think he is better than he is..... and conversely then tend to think his main competitors are not as good, overrated, or not decent people. Now, certainly some F1 drivers are not good people (maybe as many as half in this current field), but there is not a shortage of talent. We know for a fact that Hamilton and Alonso compare well with each other, and it appears that Raikonen does not compare as well with either Alonso or Vettel...beyond that, there is some speculation and lots of sniping. But, it is the nature of humans to have their biases until some real event clearly establishes the truth.


What is the truth in F1 environment? I would challenge that we ever are aware of all facts permitting us to know with sufficient clarity causes leading into outcome we evaluate, thus we use a consensus of opinion among stewards to derive various judgements, often based on conjecture, but nothing more. Fact is, if all was straight forward (clear), we would use one steward, instead 3+1.

There are of course also varying consensus of opinion among fan-groups, among media, among paddock personnel, each is different, and here we are, we all know "our truth". Comparisons of drivers and equipment is the absolutely worst, and most difficult, because they are NEVER the same, even if in theory they should be. Other than paint, there is where "the same" ends, and similar beggins.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lyria on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:53 am

Lawrence wrote:
f1datavis wrote:What riles me most is that I adore watching a grand Prix of 20 plus brilliant drivers, even the pay ones. I can play okay tennis, kick a football as good as most, but I am certain I couldn't make an F1 go round the block, let alone blast through Stowe in 5th. "True fans like Vettel", yep hands up - he's deffo one skilled lad. But also liking and enjoying Hamilton's success, don't go there...


I understand exactly what you mean (or at least I understand what I think you mean). Unfortunately, human beings are not particularly objective, if they like someone, they often tend to think he is better than he is..... and conversely then tend to think his main competitors are not as good, overrated, or not decent people. Now, certainly some F1 drivers are not good people (maybe as many as half in this current field), but there is not a shortage of talent. We know for a fact that Hamilton and Alonso compare well with each other, and it appears that Raikonen does not compare as well with either Alonso or Vettel...beyond that, there is some speculation and lots of sniping. But, it is the nature of humans to have their biases until some real event clearly establishes the truth.


Well one of my email friends (who used to post here 9-10 years ago and we've kept in touch) once told me that he gets as much enjoyment from booing and hissing at those drivers he doesn't like, as he does cheering on the ones he does. So I guess that just shows we all watch these things in our own way, we all have our own views and opinions on them too.

I personally can't admire a driver if I don't like/respect them as a person, I don't know why I can't, I just know I simply can't do it. Alonso is a great driver and I was a fan of his until he said some things that made me look at him with new eyes. Obviously I know he's still a good driver but I can't admire him anymore and therefore I can't want him to win either, not that there's much chance of that at the moment.

No one is truly 100% objective, at least no one I've ever met so far, it's human nature to always pick someone you like better than the others and want them to do well, you do then get a certain bias towards them I suppose, it's not something you necessarily mean to do either, it just happens that way.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Lyria on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:54 am

IanK wrote:
Lyria wrote:just yelling that you can't drive the car as Verstappen did isn't helpful


Well, the problem there is he's a Verstappen and over the past decade or so there's been a trend toward replacing gravel traps with paved runoff areas. He just doesn't know what to do when there's nowhere to beach his car.


:rotflmao: That's mean, probably true, but mean :rotflmao:
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby IanK on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:12 pm

And I turned on the race just in time to see Max Verstappen beach it. The spirit of Grindbak lives on!
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby IanK on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:43 pm

Williams blew it by not making Massa let Bottas by about ten laps before either of them stopped.
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Re: 2015 British GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:57 pm

What was that weird race about? Williams gave couple of guys heart attack, whilst Ferrari, motionless glued to the starting positions saw RB colors shooting by them like a missile. Seb was trying to be nice, and found while the guys were busy blocking him, they let others by, so in no time he started walking backwards. Kimi might be in trouble with TP.

I didn't like this race at all. Mercedes PU everywhere, Renault is on upswing, Ferrari screwed up. Big time. At Monza we might need to call on help from Rome. To win another race this season will take a lot of skill, and maybe also little more of luck. On tracks with fast corners Ferrari is not very good at the moment.
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