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2015 Belgian GP

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:48 pm

Sakae wrote:Scuderia
Sebastian Vettel: “We deserved to finish on the podium but that’s racing; a different thing thought is not to finish the race because of what happened. I think this is not easy to accept for a driver, even if it’s not as bad as in Silverstone few years ago, but still we need to talk to each other as it can’t happen without prior notice. There’s no explanation for what happened: it’s not a puncture, the tire just exploded.”


Based of lap times, tire degradation was normal, not indicating that useful life cycle has been exceeded. Moreover, two stoppers weren't mandated due to safety concerns, and Scuderia insists that all parameters (pressure, camber, etc.) were followed. Looks like structural failure. The fact is, under certain circumstance Vettel could have lost his life, or sustain massive injuries today loosing a tire in that speed.


I'd say that Pirelli's explanation is utter BS for a very simple reason: out of La Source Vettel's Ferrari had much better traction that Grosjean's Lotus and that would never happen if Vettel's rear tyres had degraded significantly
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:15 am

Another hot potatoe in FiA's lap. Pirelli is now out, claiming, that they asked teams to limit laps a set of tires can take on, but teams refused. I think however question rather is, if this is a safety issue, why is Pirelli talking to teams, instead FiA, who can mandate a limit of laps? It will probably make mockery out of racing, but as an emergency procedure it could have been implemented. Whiting must have been aware of this request, and I am lost why he proactively has not taken lead on this issue. These comments must be taken within context, that two drivers could have been killed this weekend. Some media suggested that causes for tire blow up were different, but I am not so sure. 28 laps by Vettel is not what I would call "blow up due to abusing wear limit".

Amend. Pirelli's proposal to limit amount of laps a team can put on a tire was issued in 2013 (but, they felt necessary to dust it off this wekend). Fact remains, wear should be demonstrated by degradation of performance, not a structural loss (methinks). Moreover, why anyone let Hembery to even talk about it? Obligation is to make a tire on the existing specifications, not those rejected in 2013. Michellin can make tire to go whole race, GoodYear can do it, Bridgestone can do it, why not Hembery? Do they making "bad" tire purposely?
Last edited by Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:34 am

Button is lamenting how bad the race was (again). I wonder what happened to that promise of his, that with his experience Honda will benefit. (It wasn't about personal income then)?
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:14 am

fresh from my holidays I was looking forward to the Spa race, in the end the race was ok but not a classic, there was very little action other than a few DRS passes

Hamilton - I'm sure that he drove well and that he had the race under control, that is certainly good for him, whether it's also good for the show is debatable

Rosberg - somehow he can be quick but he's not consistent these days, he doesn't seem so focused, I wonder if the problem is that he's becoming a father or else, to me he looks like a changed person after Spa last year

Vettel - he fully deserved that spot on the podium, he drove a faultless race, I don't buy for a single second the claim that Ferrari took a risk by running those tyres for 28 laps as (i) they were still performing strongly when it mattered (ie traction out of La Source) and (ii) the teams had been told that the tyres could last 40 laps and the Pirelli man at Ferrari didn't warn them of the risk of a one stop strategy. It could have been horribly dangerous had it happened while Vettel was still at Eau Rouge so IMHO he's perfectly entitled to show his anger

Grosjean - he drove well, especially compared to the Williams duo, his car was a bit quicker on the straights and he managed to make the best of it

Kvyat - I enjoyed watching him yesterday, he was in fighting mode and it paid off. His car looked very balanced, especially under braking

Perez - considering the stinker that he was driving I'd say that Perez was my driver of the day, I think that he did a sterling job, he was very clean and never gave up despite being surrounded by much quicker cars

Massa - IMHO the Williams was a better car than the Lotus yesterday, they had to run a very defensive set up (very big rear spoiler) I presume to cover for potential issues to their rear tyres under acceleration so they lost a bit of top speed but still IMHO their drivers could have achieved more. Massa, as usual, couldn't overtake when necessary

Raikkonen - IMHO he no longer deserves to be in F1, it's that simple. Yesterday it was another tragic appearance for him

Verstappen - great pass on the outside at Blanchimont _O_ _O_ :thumbs: :thumbs: he did a good job

Bottas - another below average performance for him, even factoring in the problem with that tyre change, IMHO he's possibly the most overhyped and overrated driver of the modern era after Raikkonen (and on a par with the young Kovalainen)
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:28 am

The F1 was always political, and remanis so today. Both Mercedes managers jump on defense of Pirelli, slamming Vettel, and I think all three (Wolff, Lauda, Hembery) are dead wrong. One more time, this is not a year 2013, former proposal on lap cap per set of tires was not accepted, and therefore we should be working on current specs, not rejected ones. One would think that both, Wolff and Lauda should concern themselves with making F1 more competitive by removing homologation restrains on PU, instead claiming they MUST come to defense of Pirelli. What a waste of time with cheap victories.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:32 am

Paolo 2 wrote:fresh from my holidays I was looking forward to the Spa race, in the end the race was ok but not a classic, there was very little action other than a few DRS passes

Hamilton - I'm sure that he drove well and that he had the race under control, that is certainly good for him, whether it's also good for the show is debatable

Rosberg - somehow he can be quick but he's not consistent these days, he doesn't seem so focused, I wonder if the problem is that he's becoming a father or else, to me he looks like a changed person after Spa last year

Vettel - he fully deserved that spot on the podium, he drove a faultless race, I don't buy for a single second the claim that Ferrari took a risk by running those tyres for 28 laps as (i) they were still performing strongly when it mattered (ie traction out of La Source) and (ii) the teams had been told that the tyres could last 40 laps and the Pirelli man at Ferrari didn't warn them of the risk of a one stop strategy. It could have been horribly dangerous had it happened while Vettel was still at Eau Rouge so IMHO he's perfectly entitled to show his anger

Grosjean - he drove well, especially compared to the Williams duo, his car was a bit quicker on the straights and he managed to make the best of it

Kvyat - I enjoyed watching him yesterday, he was in fighting mode and it paid off. His car looked very balanced, especially under braking

Perez - considering the stinker that he was driving I'd say that Perez was my driver of the day, I think that he did a sterling job, he was very clean and never gave up despite being surrounded by much quicker cars

Massa - IMHO the Williams was a better car than the Lotus yesterday, they had to run a very defensive set up (very big rear spoiler) I presume to cover for potential issues to their rear tyres under acceleration so they lost a bit of top speed but still IMHO their drivers could have achieved more. Massa, as usual, couldn't overtake when necessary

Raikkonen - IMHO he no longer deserves to be in F1, it's that simple. Yesterday it was another tragic appearance for him

Verstappen - great pass on the outside at Blanchimont _O_ _O_ :thumbs: :thumbs: he did a good job

Bottas - another below average performance for him, even factoring in the problem with that tyre change, IMHO he's possibly the most overhyped and overrated driver of the modern era after Raikkonen (and on a par with the young Kovalainen)
Good stuff as usuallly is, but despite your reservation with Räikkönen, who else was there? If Alonso lands with RBR next year, maybe Russian moves over to Maranello, but I still would have hired Sainz, and try to work with him for next two years.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:48 pm

Sakae wrote:Another hot potatoe in FiA's lap. Pirelli is now out, claiming, that they asked teams to limit laps a set of tires can take on, but teams refused. I think however question rather is, if this is a safety issue, why is Pirelli talking to teams, instead FiA, who can mandate a limit of laps? It will probably make mockery out of racing, but as an emergency procedure it could have been implemented. Whiting must have been aware of this request, and I am lost why he proactively has not taken lead on this issue. These comments must be taken within context, that two drivers could have been killed this weekend. Some media suggested that causes for tire blow up were different, but I am not so sure. 28 laps by Vettel is not what I would call "blow up due to abusing wear limit".

Amend. Pirelli's proposal to limit amount of laps a team can put on a tire was issued in 2013 (but, they felt necessary to dust it off this wekend). Fact remains, wear should be demonstrated by degradation of performance, not a structural loss (methinks). Moreover, why anyone let Hembery to even talk about it? Obligation is to make a tire on the existing specifications, not those rejected in 2013. Michellin can make tire to go whole race, GoodYear can do it, Bridgestone can do it, why not Hembery? Do they making "bad" tire purposely?


(German) F1 insider.com claims there are now more teams who admitting being told by Pirelli, that tire should survive at least 30 laps without any issues, but for political reasons do not want to get involved. What I do not understand, how some media blaming team(s) for this fiasco, or even why the Austrian brass running F1 for Mercedes would be all over Vettel. Not surprisingly most are focusing on critiquing Ferrari, rather than realizing, that Rosberg would not have been saved even if he decided on three stoppers, and I reject Hembery's explanation, that Vettel's issue was due wear (only). First he makes a such statement, and now they tell us they are investigating? Talking about placing a cart on the front of a horse. There were two high speed incidents, both could have ended as fatality, and until decent investigation by an independent party is concluded, we should not hear a squeek on this topic from Hembery or anyone else, and unless we have cause and effect analysis concluded, at Monza there should be a temporary measure introduced, to cut risk to minimum. (Rosberg I think had about ten laps when it blew up, if I am not mistaken. I wonder how "safety concious" FiA will address this).
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Lawrence on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:50 am

About my only comment about the Belgium GP was Kvyat's post race interview on U.S. TV. He was giving the usual interview until he got to discussing his pass, and then he got real excited about discussing the racing. For a change, you could actually see a driver who enjoyed the racing. Kvyat did drive a great race. There is also some real passion there.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:32 pm

Various sources are reporting that British based Lotus remains impounded at Spa by bailiffs for breach of a committment to its (former) driver. EUR 750 000 could potentially resolve this issue.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Sakae on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:34 pm

Ferrari doesn't want 'fight' with Pirelli

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/536380/Ferrari_doesnt_want_fight_with_Pirelli/

Quite a straightforward talk, and to the point. Somewhere else I read that Seb's tire was seen actually delaminating just before big bang. Question is then, what was the Pirelli rep doing in Ferrari garage, if not giving them a warning about risk they undertaking? People were rushing to make all kind of statements, and now whole case is like Swiss cheese, full of holes.

I would not be surprised if he was actually aware there will be only one stop, because he needed to make sure tires are ready for rotation, and what did he do with that information? Has he spoken to anyone about his concerns? Lauda Totto, Hembery can talk as much as they want, but if one takes more pragamatic look, surely Pirelli bear some responsibility for the incident. Now we will have to wait of there will be issued a cap on laps allowed per set on safety grounds. (Could be 22).


____

Seb probably will receive some kind of hit next weekend, as he did not weigh after the race. Case was deffered to the Stewards by a technical delegate.
Last edited by Sakae on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Lawrence on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:04 pm

Sakae wrote:Various sources are reporting that British based Lotus remains impounded at Spa by bailiffs for breach of a committment to its (former) driver. EUR 750 000 could potentially resolve this issue.


Well, these organizations need to be held accountable for their contracts with drivers. Apparently the attitude is that a driver should never do that. For example, van der Garde had a problem this weekend getting a pass to the pits, apparently with Ecclestone involved in trying to block him. Standing up for your legal rights and winning a law suit against an F1 team gets you banned from F1. There is something fundamentally unethical about the F1 crowd.
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Re: 2015 Belgian GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:45 pm

Lawrence wrote:There is something fundamentally unethical about the F1 crowd.


Sad but I have to agree
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