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2015 Singapore GP

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

Moderators: Lyria, Mafia, Lawrence, Administrator

Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lyria on Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:06 pm

Vettel on pole!! :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:

The Mercedes could only manage 5th and 6th, seriously? I thought they were sandbagging on Friday, apparently not. Great effort by both Ferrari and Red Bull today, let's hope they can continue the good work tomorrow in the race!

Shame I don't get to see it live, just damn delayed highlights again :rant: :angryfire: :banghead: :argh:
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:29 pm

My resolve to stay away from F1 for one day vanished after someone run into a park to find me with the qualification results. What can I say, other that today we celebrate, fully realizing tomorrow is another day, and I am merely hoping that Australian is not going to attempt some kangaroo move which puts both of them out of a race. Seeing how he likes to emulate Maldo, and get away with it with applause, he is fully capable to mess up someone else's race (re: Monaco). Mercedes might be back tomorrow, even if I doubt as race winners. Tires were blamed for their qualification result, however I have a different explanation, namely, Vettel is a better driver, and after their unfair power plant advantage was neutralized by the track topology, Hamilton looks suddenly very ordinary in that NASA space ship he has for his disposal.

(In re-run, I have now seen Q3, and the winning lap).
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lawrence on Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:03 pm

Sakae wrote:My resolve to stay away from F1 for one day vanished after someone run into a park to find me with the qualification results.


Didn't you know that Bernie regularly reads our forum?
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:37 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Sakae wrote:My resolve to stay away from F1 for one day vanished after someone run into a park to find me with the qualification results.


Didn't you know that Bernie regularly reads our forum?
Mr. Ecclestone has nothing to learn of me, and I doubt he would waste his time on such trivialities. Some time ago (when I still was welcomed on that forum), a few sneaky (over the shoulder) photos however caught Hamilton browsing the Autosport Racing Forum. That much I knew.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:27 am

motosport.com

Hamilton is surprised...
Following post-qualifying analysis of why his Mercedes car delivered its worst grid position of the season, Hamilton is convinced that wrong direction on set-up was not the answer as to the team's struggles.

Instead, he suggests there must be a different explanation as to why Mercedes faced such a deficit of performance compared to Ferrari.

“I had 100% confidence in the car,” explained Hamilton. “The balance was good, I had no understeer, the traction wasn’t particularly great but the balance was really good.

“We’ve definitely worked a lot more on balance set-up wise, trying to find more grip from the tyres.

"It’s not the set-up [that is the issue], we’ve had a couple of good set-ups. It’s the tyres for some reason. For whatever reason, we don’t quite know.”


Well, there is the thing - Hamilton has engaged on TV in the past in critiquing Vettel's choice of his drive line in the past, whilst glorify his "masterpiece". Interestingly, today here he is "challenging team", but no self-awareness of his own contribution. PDR (on Sky network) has done a comparative video-analysis of yesterday's qualifying laps between Vettel and Hamilton, and it appears Vettel's approach, seems more effective, as evidenced by the result. Singapore is a race of many corners, almost 2 min long laps, and if you lose a fraction in each turn due to bulldozing corners, instead finessing it, don't be then surprised that you don't end up on a front row. Now when we have comparison of cars and drivers without PU system being a dominant factor, we can now see little more who is who, and what is what.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:27 pm

I am not sure that I am ready to judge races, without slipping into comparisons with the era of Prost, Senna and Schumacher, and that might be unfair to present drivers. Yes, I am happy with a result, congrats to Seb and Ferrari, but how is it otherwise different when Mercedes wins? Maybe this was more deserved, since imbalances on PU side was set aside for two hours. The only honest answer I am curious about whether Hamilton threw his toys out of pram in order to save his defeated face and parked, or had he suffered genuine malfunction on his car? One newer knows with him.

DR behaved sensibly, which I've appreciated.
Young Max needs to learn patience.
Gro simply screw up; I have been expecting better of him.
Honda - as expected.
Rosberg - written on his forehead, I am done for this year, and gave up already a year ago.
Hulk - I think he should apologize to Massa (who was standing on brakes), and also perhaps explain, what he was expecting Massa to do?
Kimi - I am lost of reasons why he couldn't even come close to Seb.

This was a race of two men. Nice change in names, otherwise more of the same. We have five WDC on the grid. It would be nice to see them more in the mix in properly developed cars, have young MV pushing them, while poking his nose in between. I think we are being robbed of that opportunity.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lawrence on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:56 pm

Sakae wrote:The only honest answer I am curious about whether Hamilton threw his toys out of pram in order to save his defeated face and parked, or had he suffered genuine malfunction on his car? One newer knows with him.


Now you are just making stuff up. Hamilton said after the race that he probably had a chance to win it until the second safety car, and from I saw that was a realistic assessment.

Anyhow, race a little processional otherwise. DR was never in reach.

Kimi - I am lost of reasons why he couldn't even come close to Seb.


That has been the case for the last two seasons, be it Alonso or Vettel.

I am not sure I blame Hulk for that crash.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:19 pm

Well, DR said, Hamilton said, SC prevented me from winning... this bloated talk is simply tiring.

Seb menwhile said - I had it under control.
Murray (broadcaster) said - catching is one thing, overtaking is another.

Undercut was the only strategy option available to cars in pursuit, however Ferrari is not stupid, and I am sure they had it figured out as much as we have.


Hulk - he will lose 3 places in Japan next week on the grid, if I am not mistaken. I am also not sure whether he could steer the car clear of Massa as soon as he realized their positions, or thought Massa should have stepped on brakes sooner. It could be one of those things, but Stewards blame him.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Mach on Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:12 am

What was worse to watch? The idiot walking around on track, take a picture and then walk off the track or the Manor Marussia (Rossi) trying to get out of the way on the second restart with all his rivals flying by him?

I say Manor Marussia was worse to watch. Because they'll be there next week at Suzuka and then Sochi...then Circuit of the Americas...then in 2016....2017.... :roll: :roll:

Why the f@#k are they on the grid?
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:59 am

Eddie Jordan's in post-race interview was not as funny as he might be thinking. His questions to Vettel were irreverent at best, accusing him of backing (slowing) RB so Kimi could pass, trying to catch him with Senna-at-Ferrari questions, etc. Really Jordan? Maybe it's time for you to go as well, or stop showboating on the podium where stars are drivers, and not the interviewer, and return interview into a press room, methinks.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lyria on Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:12 am

Sakae wrote:Eddie Jordan's in post-race interview was not as funny as he might be thinking. His questions to Vettel were irreverent at best, accusing him of backing (slowing) RB so Kimi could pass, trying to catch him with Senna-at-Ferrari questions, etc. Really Jordan? Maybe it's time for you to go as well, or stop showboating on the podium where stars are drivers, and not the interviewer, and return interview into a press room, methinks.


DC and Ben Edwards said much the same thing about Seb backing Ricciardo into Paikkonen, even Hamilton came on the radio and said he was doing it, hell even I thought he was trying to do that if I'm honest!! Seb had faster pace than that and he proved it when he wanted to pull away.

Great win by Seb :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: I was worried when the safety car came out twice and he had to build the lead again, but he did great. What the hell was the guy doing on track? What an idiot!!

Verstappen could be in trouble with the team, he defied a direct team order. I actually think he was right to do so, I can't see any reason why the team told him to let Sainz through, so I'm glad he didn't, but I don't think he's going to be popular in the garage for defying them that way. It could cost him dear.

The Mercs just didn't seem to be on it, Rosberg was lacklustre even after his team mate retired. Hamilton did whine on the radio about retiring the car when the team didn't just bring him in. He said he wanted to save the engine, well I think he wanted to save face too. He almost got passed by Rossi who started a lap down for crying out loud!!

Yes Manor said Rossi didn't get the message about unlapping himself, poor guy, his first ever F1 race and he was totally in the way with nowhere to go at the restart. Ouch.

As for the Massa/Hulkenberg incident. I'm not sure Massa had anywhere else to go, I do think it was one of those racing incidents though, six of one, half a dozen of the other. Maybe they could both have driven a little differently and avoided the crash.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Sakae on Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:29 am

@Lyria: Slowing a car that follows you is not a new tactic, but it is a strategy which makes sense only when (i) following car, Kimi, can overtake on a track wide enough, (ii) Kimi had more speed than RB, and (iii) Kimi would be very, very close to RB to cash on P2 being out of position initiated by and forced by Vettel choosing suitable drive line. None of those conditions condusive to overtaking mentioned earlier were true. Moreover, Ferrari pitwall, seeing that Kimi had no chance, for security reason would have instructed Seb to build a safety margin and not waste his time on KImi, if he could do that. Seeing however his blistered tires after he parked his car, it became clear that he could not pull away from RB. That was the reason, as I see it.
Kimi ended up very much behind P2 (for whatever of reasons). Even DR stated in the post-race interview, that it was a race of two cars, him and Vettel only. Mind you, all people you have mentioned are really not totally free of bias when the subject is Vettel v. Ricciardo (IMO), and spreading little sensational headlines, right or wrong, never had been a problem for them.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Paolo 2 on Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:51 am

Lyria wrote:
DC and Ben Edwards said much the same thing about Seb backing Ricciardo into Paikkonen, even Hamilton came on the radio and said he was doing it, hell even I thought he was trying to do that if I'm honest!! Seb had faster pace than that and he proved it when he wanted to pull away.

...

Yes Manor said Rossi didn't get the message about unlapping himself, poor guy, his first ever F1 race and he was totally in the way with nowhere to go at the restart. Ouch.

...

As for the Massa/Hulkenberg incident. I'm not sure Massa had anywhere else to go, I do think it was one of those racing incidents though, six of one, half a dozen of the other. Maybe they could both have driven a little differently and avoided the crash.


I personally doubt that Vettel slowed down Ricciardo on purpose, I think that after the first SC he was racing Hamilton (with a different strategy) and not Ricciardo and the reason why he wasn't pushing was that since Hamilton was on the soft tyres he had to try and look after his supersofts and try to make them last a little bit longer than usual, as soon as he realised that Hamilton was no longer a threat he went back to his original strategy and could once again push and so he opened the gap (in style if I may say so)

Regarding Rossi, my understanding was that at first he was told to overtake and then he was told to stay put since had he overtaken they would have to wait a further lap with the SC

Regarding the Massa/Hukenberg incident I think that it was just a racing incident, IMHO no one was to blame if not the bloke who designed the pit exit and placed the outcoming cars bang in the midlle of the racing line
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lyria on Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:10 pm

Okay so between you Sakae and Paolo, you've convinced me that Seb wasn't backing Ricciardo up, it just seemed like he might be doing that at the time. Of course I was thinking in terms of a dream 1-2 finish for Ferrari and with Seb being such a team player he might be hoping for that. Clearly I was wrong. I stand corrected 8)

Rossi might well have got both messages as you say Paolo, but they said on the BBC that he had lost radio contact so didn't get the message about unlapping himself, so I believed that was what happened as I had no reason not to.

Hulkenberg has the penalty for the incident with Massa, I guess the stewards decided he was more at fault then.
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Re: 2015 Singapore GP

Postby Lawrence on Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:47 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:...I think that after the first SC he was racing Hamilton (with a different strategy) and not Ricciardo and the reason why he wasn't pushing was that since Hamilton was on the soft tyres he had to try and look after his supersofts and try to make them last a little bit longer than usual, as soon as he realised that Hamilton was no longer a threat he went back to his original strategy and could once again push and so he opened the gap (in style if I may say so)


Yea, it looked to me like the race was between Vettel and Hamilton (not DR).

Of course, this raises the question as to why Raikonnen and Rosberg were also not part of the race.

Any comments on Verstappen's very loud "No"
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