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Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Talk about the Teams & Drivers

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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Mach on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:54 pm

Hopefully we'll see Vettel and Lewis battles next season....cuz Mercedes won't allow a Nico vs Lewis battle to occur
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Sakae on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:01 pm

It's going to be perhaps better year than this one, but still, not enough. Ferrari remains handicapped, and that will not change in the first part of next year, at least I thinks so. Drivers battle, if there is one at all, might kick in around summer time 2016. Honda will come back with vengeance, and we will see what Renault can do. There is a lot of bad rhetoric aimed at Renault, but I would be very careful. Those guys have won previously, and not exactly because it was gifted to them. It might not be just Hamilton against Ferrari alone.

Haas now thinks that his chassis is better than one design by Allison. (Probably due to higher grade computer analysis - guessing). That's another topic worth discussion of its own. Due to limited testing, now we will have battle of computers, instead drivers. ***&~#@{!, if you pardon my language.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Mach on Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:08 pm

After watching Brazil post race conference, I'm left scratching my head with Nico saying he doesn’t know why he's quicker than Hamilton as of late and hearing Lewis comment about not understanding why he's lost his pace to Nico! :confused:
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Lawrence on Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:33 am

Mach wrote:After watching Brazil post race conference, I'm left scratching my head with Nico saying he doesn’t know why he's quicker than Hamilton as of late and hearing Lewis comment about not understanding why he's lost his pace to Nico! :confused:


Well, maybe it is because there really is not that big of a difference between the two. It is actually a real testament to how good Nico is, as Hamilton has already proven that he is at least as fast as Alonso (and Nico is faster than an ageing Schumacher). The real question is how does Vettel compare to these three. I guess we won't know unless one of these three join Ferrari.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Mach on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:40 am

Or Seb joins Mercedes after teams field 3 cars :hungry:
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Lyria on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:01 am

Lawrence wrote:
Mach wrote:After watching Brazil post race conference, I'm left scratching my head with Nico saying he doesn’t know why he's quicker than Hamilton as of late and hearing Lewis comment about not understanding why he's lost his pace to Nico! :confused:


Well, maybe it is because there really is not that big of a difference between the two. It is actually a real testament to how good Nico is, as Hamilton has already proven that he is at least as fast as Alonso (and Nico is faster than an ageing Schumacher). The real question is how does Vettel compare to these three. I guess we won't know unless one of these three join Ferrari.


I agree, they're both damn fast and the difference seemed to start after they changed the tyre pressures, I read a fascinating piece about it by Andrew Benson on the BBC about it too and why they think it's changed.

Andrew Benson, BBC wrote:Five pole positions in a row. Two consecutive wins. How different this world championship might have been if Nico Rosberg had found this form at the beginning of the season rather than the end.

For the first two-thirds of this season, it was the German scrabbling around for answers to explain his team-mate's superiority.

Eleven pole positions in the first 12 races were the foundations of Hamilton's cruise to a championship that was settled with four races to go.

This, Rosberg admits, led to some soul-searching and analysis as to what was going on and what he could do about it. And it has clearly worked. Now, with Rosberg revived, it is Hamilton's turn to question himself.

"Nico has been doing a fantastic job in qualifying," Hamilton said. "I have to think how things have changed. Since Singapore, there have been some changes to our car which seem to have shifted the direction of the ways [the respective fortunes of himself and Rosberg], so I need to figure out why that is and how I can get back on it."

So what has been going on?

Hamilton did not say what changes to the Mercedes car he thought had potentially made a difference to his qualifying form. Racing drivers are always coy about technical modifications - they are told to be.

But he did admit that he "has been a little less comfortable" since the modification and that he had "only just noticed it". Having done so, it is clear it is preying on his mind.

Even when Hamilton was in his run of poles, the margins between him and Rosberg were often small, in the hundredths of seconds, just as they have been recently. But until this recent turnaround, they always fell Hamilton's way, just as now they are Rosberg's.
Where has Rosberg improved?

One senior figure in the Mercedes team said the only difference he could see in the data was that Rosberg has improved in the braking phase into the corner.

Nico Rosberg has consolidated second position in the drivers' championship with the win in Brazil

He can tolerate more rear slip on entry than before, which is allowing him to be more aggressive and winning him time from the entry to apex. This is only gaining hundredths, not 10ths. But when there is only 0.08secs between the drivers over a lap, as in Brazil, that could be decisive.

What do the engineers and racing drivers mean by rear slip? It is how close the wheels come to locking during braking.

Brazilian GP: Lewis Hamilton was 'pushing like crazy'

"I would call it the wheel under-rotating," says former grand prix driver Alexander Wurz, a former team-mate of Rosberg, who as president of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association is very close to many of the drivers. "If you steer at the same time, your tyre will start to slide.

"Some drivers are incredibly cautious and don't like it and some just don't mind because they know the tyre will come back when they release the brake pressure and stop the under-rotation. It is very much down to driver and driving style."
The intricacies of cornering speed

Hamilton's greatest strength has always been his incredible feel for this aspect of driving - and if Rosberg has found a way to match him, it neutralises his advantage.

This was seen in 2012, when at Red Bull Mark Webber was generally faster than Sebastian Vettel in the first half of the season.

Wurz says this was because the way the car's aerodynamics reacted during braking created an instability that was at odds with the way Vettel wanted to drive the car.
brazilian gp

"It depends on aerodynamics, too," Wurz says. "For example, Vettel couldn't do that in the year where Webber was a bit faster in the first half-season. His rear aero was unstable in this slide phase and he didn't like it because he needed it, but he couldn't because the aero suddenly goes under yaw."

In other words, as the car was leaning to one side under cornering load, the aerodynamics did not provide consistent grip. As Vettel relies on a controlled rear slide on corner entry to generate his cornering pace, this neutralised his advantage over his team-mate.
What has changed technically at Mercedes?

Could the change in the Mercedes car Hamilton referred to be related to this?

The only publicly known tweak to the car is in the way Mercedes treat the tyres ahead of qualifying and race.

This is their response to tyre supplier Pirelli's demand for teams to run higher pressures as well as limiting the maximum temperatures of the tyre following the 200mph failures suffered by Rosberg and Ferrari's Sebastian Vettel at the Belgian Grand Prix in August.

The mandatory minimum pressures are higher than the teams would ideally like to run because they reduce grip - indeed their views were represented in a letter from governing body the FIA to Pirelli ahead of the Brazil race. Pirelli rejected the teams' complaints.

In an attempt to run tyre pressures as low as possible, but still ensure they meet Pirelli's mandatory minimums, Mercedes heat the wheels before the car goes out on track, which raises the tyre pressure when the car is static and allows it to fall down again when they are out on track for better performance.

Hamilton says he didn't have "the most conventional of build-ups to a grand prix weekend" after crashing his sports car in Monaco on Monday night

Treating the wheels and tyres in this way can affect the front-rear balance during braking, and therefore could be an explanation for Rosberg's ability to brake later, accept more "slip" and attack the corner more confidently.

Asked about this, Mercedes executive director (technical) Paddy Lowe admitted: "Tyre pressures have affected changes [to the car] through that period."
Rosberg better rather than Hamilton worse

Rosberg says he has "raised my game". But Lowe is not convinced the explanation is technical.

"I would probably say Nico has upped his game rather than Lewis has lost it," Lowe says.

"The thing you need in qualifying is that ability to pull out an extraordinary lap, where you have pushed it all the way to the limit. To do that, you need a lot of human qualities, including staying calm under pressure.

Brazilian GP: I don't like coming second - Nico Rosberg

"We've all seen it - when a driver does a lap and we say, where did that come from? And we've seen the opposite where the final lap slightly disappoints. It's all about confidence in a moment and there is no constant to that.

"It's about more human qualities than technical qualities."

Rosberg was asked during the weekend whether he felt he had relaxed into his driving more once he realised the championship was pretty much out of his reach.

When exactly that was is not completely clear, but in that context the key phase of the season was in September and early October.

In consecutive races, Rosberg retired with an engine failure in Italy, failed to capitalise on Hamilton's retirement in Singapore on a weekend when Mercedes were mysteriously uncompetitive, then was muscled out by Hamilton at the second corner in Japan.

Hamilton heads to the final race of the season in Abu Dhabi determined to get back on top

His retirement in Russia was what enabled Hamilton to win the title at the next race in Austin, but the run up to that race was when it became clear only an unlikely series of problems for Hamilton could stall his momentum.

And it was about that time that Rosberg's run of poles started - first in inconclusive circumstances in a truncated qualifying session in Japan, and from there Russia.

Did this free Rosberg up mentally at the same time as a subtle tweak to the car also helped his driving, leading to a self-perpetuating spiral of confidence and performance?

"I think it is purely in the head because Nico was purely focused on Lewis before," Wurz says.

"Every radio call, every start he was pointing towards him. His focus was not 'I have to be the best', it was 'I have to beat Lewis'. And now it is very different. It is 'I want to beat Lewis' and so the focus changed. I think it's purely mental."
Nico Rosberg


Brazilian GP: Watch Nico Rosberg's pole lap at Interlagos

As to why that makes a driver faster, Wurz says: "Because the focus is on you and only you and just optimising what you have.

"Nico has the talent and speed, and we have seen that through his career. But if you only focus on the other guy, your attention is wrong.

"It is like in the office. If you are focused on politics rather than your product, you will feel it and sport is in your head. It is so clear."
Why the last race is important

There is only one race remaining this season, and Hamilton does not want to go into the winter on the back of a run of six poles and three wins for Rosberg.

"These next months are going to be really important and going to Abu Dhabi trying to get back on top of that," Hamilton said. "I have not lost any pace. I will be working hard for the next couple of weeks."

For these reasons, then, while the final race of the season might appear of little consequence, to Hamilton and Rosberg it is anything but.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Lawrence on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:25 pm

Interesting article. Glad to see Rosberg wake up. We may have a very interesting 2016, especially if the Ferrari's are competitive.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Mach on Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:18 am

Andrew Benson's article is an interesting read...yeah....but let's put things in perspective.

Improved corner braking...REALLY!!???
Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez circuit has 17 turns. Autódromo José Carlos Pace has 15 turns.
Yes, Nico has bettered Lewis by less than a tenth of a second....not faster by a couple tenths.

It's something technical and I think it's the tyre pressure favoring Nico's driving style over Lewis.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Sakae on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:15 am

Crash
F1 » Hamilton explains change responsible for dip in form 28 November 2015
Lewis Hamilton: Whilst it looks like one side [Nico] has gone a lot better, from our point of view as a team it has gotten worse [on my side].

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/548261/Hamilton_explains_change_responsible_for_dip_in_form/
Can we say now he has been beaten by his team-mate, or is it too soon? All joking aside, I think this case illustrates why comparisons of team-mates is fun, however far reaching conclusions resulting on any such mind-wondering makes (to me) no sense at all. Vettel had his case of issues with a car last year, Hamilton has some down-time now, so what? In large picture it makes no difference. In Hamilton's case it's actually not first time when he is experiencing dip in his form as a driver. It has been also noted, Vettel has been more self-critical than this person, who simply blames his support team as optics do suggest.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Sakae on Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:25 am

Wow, wow, wow...this is all Hamilton's handy work.
Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-driver-tension-may-force-line-up-change/

Shocking, but I would let Hamilton go. If it is not Rosberg, than incidents will repeat with his replacement in an endless chain. Surgical cut might be a good solution. With that car, Rosberg can win too, cost less money, and is more acceptable as a person and image for Mercedes brand.

Wolf (paraphrasing) - we want fast drivers, but we want nice (pleasant to deal with?) guys. Some of their thinking has been voiced already during a discussion about supplies to RBR.

Wolff's response to questions about Mercedes supplying engines to Red Bull, when he said:
"[I have] the responsibility to represent the Mercedes-Benz brand in the right way in Formula One‎ - and to make sure it is represented in the right way by others, too."


On the other hand, as much as I am not aligned to what I see on TV, or read in papers how Mercedes drivers behave, question of course is, whether it was actually F1 team management, which let this happen by letting Hamilton get away with lot, refusing even talk with Rosberg about recent closed calls, etc. Placing Rosberg always on defensive, whilst he feels being wronged, is not best way to keep peace in family.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Paolo 2 on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:32 am

Sakae wrote:Wow, wow, wow...this is all Hamilton's handy work.
Wolff: Driver tension may force line-up change

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-driver-tension-may-force-line-up-change/

Shocking, but I would let Hamilton go. If it is not Rosberg, than incidents will repeat with his replacement in an endless chain. Surgical cut might be a good solution. With that car, Rosberg can win too, cost less money, and is more acceptable as a person and image for Mercedes brand.



I personally think that this is a very clear signal to Rosberg, either he "behaves" (ie becomes what Barrichello was to Schumacher) or he's going to be shown the door. I don't think that Mercedes would ever choose Rosberg over Hamilton, I know Mercedes quite well 8) :hihi: and I'm 100% sure that they want Hamilton not only because he's a superb driver but also because he's got the image that suits their expansion plans. A blond, well behaved, Monaco educated rich kid who speaks fluently several languages is not what they need, they already have the clients who Nico can represent, in a sense Nico looks like a banker and Lewis looks like a pop star: IMHO there is no contest, the pop star is what everyone wants
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Lyria on Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:13 pm

See, I would have thought the rapper style, jewellery and tattoos etc. would be against what Mercedes want.

If attitudes are the problem it seems to be Hamilton who whines more when things don't go his way. On the other hand, Hamilton has a contract until 2018 and Rosberg's runs out at the end of next year so they could just not bother to renew it. I personally think that is a mistake as Rosberg is just as quick as his team mate without the histrionics, but maybe that is what they want :roll:
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Sakae on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:56 pm

Sky:
In any case, there are plenty who believe Hamilton and Rosberg have been the fortunate recipients of Mercedes' engineering and mechanical excellence over the last two years rather than the driving force behind their success. There isn't a driver in the field who doesn't believe he would have won in 2015 with the W06. Is this Wolff's way of pulling his drivers into line by reminding them that, no matter their undoubted calibre, they need Mercedes far more than Mercedes needs them?


I am rather skeptical about value of both drivers with intent to strengthen brand's image.
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Mach on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:20 pm

Sakae wrote:Sky:
In any case, there are plenty who believe Hamilton and Rosberg have been the fortunate recipients of Mercedes' engineering and mechanical excellence over the last two years rather than the driving force behind their success. There isn't a driver in the field who doesn't believe he would have won in 2015 with the W06. Is this Wolff's way of pulling his drivers into line by reminding them that, no matter their undoubted calibre, they need Mercedes far more than Mercedes needs them?
I am rather skeptical about value of both drivers with intent to strengthen brand's image.
I guess even Pastor Maldonado could win a WDC with next years car :lol:
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Re: Do Lewis and Mercedes Encourage Teamwork?

Postby Sakae on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:47 pm

That's what he said. I do not wish to be excessively obtuse, but anyone who thinks that any of Hamilton's three WDC were something special must be watching a different F1 series than I have been. To talk about Hamilton as the best driver goes over my head. As a professional driver he probably belongs to be among top 10 current drivers on the F1 grid, but beyond that I am not sure in which grid position I would place him, a reason why I am distancing myself from further discussion about this topic.
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