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Brexit

Talk about things which don't fit elsewhere

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Brexit

Postby Sakae on Thu May 28, 2015 6:11 am

Potential exit of GB from EU (Brexit) is being discussed in industrial circles, and impact it will have.

Germany invested in GB about EU107B, which is more than in next two countries. (France 35, Italy 32). BMW revived Mini in past 15 years, and with Brexit, cars will be hit with import duties. Currently about 50% of Mini production is exported to EU markets. A few banks are already on the record, they will leave London and move to continental EU. 85% of manufacturers in GB is opposing Brexit, so question is, what will happen? Japanese, like Honda for example, based on communication, decided to launch their entry into EU market from the island. Will they stay if their cars will be hit with import duties?
Tough choices; people might quench their nationalistic tendencies, but there is also that little thing - a man needs to work, earn, and eat. It's a pragmatic side of the matter. British politicians and British politics puzzle me more often than not, yet I have warm relationship with some people there, and in a way I feel sorry over whole thing. Cameron has his own political agenda, yet he might be both, right and wrong about Brussels, methinks. Right in his conviction, that corrections ought to be made how Brussels operates, wrong in conviction that changes he wants should affect only GB (if I heard him correctly). We are all in it together, thus I think changes should be common to all without exceptions. I wonder what Lyria thinks.

On my side, if GB wants their currency, all advantages common market offers, but none or very little of common obligations, than, regrettably, I would say yes, Good-bye, Brexit sounds good for me. I am focused on the automotive market, but impact of market rattle is broader and in depth, than many people realized. Take for example an US large automotive company, which has 2000 - 3000 primary suppliers, and another several thousands of second tier suppliers. Drop in demand affects thousands of people, as our lives are intertwine through economy. Money in a pocket makes things moving, but without a job...

Difficult choices are going to be made, but choices is by peoples. I wish it would get sort out without guns and ultimatums. Try diplomacy instead.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Lyria on Thu May 28, 2015 12:30 pm

Sakae, the a large majority of the British people have had enough of being dictated to by Europe. The stupid laws we have to adopt thanks to them have upset lots of people, we know we have to pay a huge amount of money to Europe as well, money we need in this country as cuts have to be made. We are over run with migrants who come here 'for a better life'. In other words they want to take advantage of our benefits system and NHS etc. etc.

I know a lot of businesses would be upset if we did pull out of Europe, but there would be lots of other benefits I can assure you. We're currently banned from trading with other countries that are traditional markets for the UK because Europe says we can't and that is plainly wrong. We could also have the same kind of relationship Switzerland has with Europe, a trade deal only rather than having to follow all the others who want to make it a United States of Europe. The British people don't want that I can assure you. They're even talking of forming a European Armed Forces now and it's things like that which makes people feel our own decisions and sovreignty are being taken from us, we don't like it.

Maybe my arguments aren't that well thought out and as in depth as they should be, but when the vote comes, I am voting to get out of Europe and I know a lot of other people who will be doing so too, some who own businesses along with others who don't. Maybe some big businesses who are currently here would leave but there are lots of others who would come here if we weren't in Europe. A lot of British manufacturing businesses are crying out for us to get out of Europe as the restraints on them are so great. So I don't know where you got the figures you quoted Sakae but they're very, very different to what I've heard!
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Re: Brexit

Postby Sakae on Thu May 28, 2015 1:20 pm

Well thank Lyria for the other point of view. It's refreshing, even if I believe rather shortsighted and perhaps one-sided because there are benefits as well to that membership, in your post omitted, yet no need to stated obvious, that is your right to decide on your future.

I do agree with you that Brussels need some fixing, but considering actual age of The Union, some minor revolt and proper input from Cameron might actually help. Hiccups could have been expected, just as we understand they do need to be fixed. I don't like a few arrangements as much as you do, I assure you, but at the same time I would not like to run away from it, but rather facing it, and ironed out.

_______

Figures quoted are from reliable German media sources.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Lyria on Thu May 28, 2015 3:25 pm

First off Sakae, I don't want you to think I am doubting your figures, I am sure you trust them, all I'm saying is they bear no relation to the figures we've seen here, that's all.

As for staying in Europe, I am sure there are benefits to doing so. What I do know is, a lot of other leaders, Mr Hollande and Mrs Merkel to name but two, seem to want to go in a way that most of Britain doesn't. An anti Europe feeling has been growing in this country for quite some time now and needs to be addressed. We have been promised a vote on the issue several times and each time we've been let down, it's not happened. The rise of the UK Independence Party and the votes they achieved when we voted for our MEP (members of the European parliament) and in the general election, has proved that people are not happy with the status quo, this issue can no longer be ignored or brushed under the carpet so to speak.

If Mr Cameron can persuade the other leaders that certain reforms need to be made, we may well end up voting to stay in, though if I'm totally honest I can't see that happening. Mr Junker has made conciliatory noises and people keep on saying they want us to stay in which is nice. What I do know is, something has to happen as the people aren't happy and any governement knows they have to give the people a voice (we haven't had a vote on this since 1973 when I was a small child) and we need to have one sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than to give people a chance to air their views on a matter which we feel we've had no say in for too long now.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Sakae on Thu May 28, 2015 4:16 pm

DW:

This week, the British Prime Minister is in Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Poland and Germany and he has pledged to talk to every single EU leader before the EU summit in Brussels at the end of June. Cameron's quest is to secure a European reform package that will lie at the heart of his campaign to keep Britain in the EU in a referendum to be held before 2017.


We shall see. Cameron made some promises that he will push for changes. Everyone is now waiting for him to tell us, what is he talking about. I read Der Spiegel the other day, and in a section reserved for reader's comments, quite a few British nationals came up with such chauvinistic responses and very expressive insults, which exceeded borders of healthy discourse, but Spiegel let it fly anyway. It is obvious that some politicians playing to and exploiting such groups, I am however more interested what more thinking people will decide. Migration - aren't most emigrants to GB from the Commonwealth? That's what one British respondent suggested.

TIMING of the Referendum
Osborne refused to address speculation that the referendum on the so-called "Brexit" might be brought forward to 2016. Many in his party and in the business community have argued that the referendum should take place much earlier than the "end of 2017" deadline" because that would reduce uncertainty.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Lyria on Fri May 29, 2015 6:26 am

Yes the very latest we'll get the vote is the end of 2017, though it could be any time between now and then. Some people want it sooner rather than later and it could be as early as the end of this year. Nothing has been firmly decided yet as far as I know, but we've been guaranteed a vote so it will happen.

Mr Cameron will see Mrs Merkel, among others, today and then we might get an idea of the feeling in Europe after he gets back. He'll tell us what chances he thinks there are for changes to be made I suppose. If none happen I think we're almost certainly on our way out and apparently Greece could be too if they don't pay their bill next week.

So it won't be just a Brexit, there could be a Grexit as well, only that would have more implications for the countries that use the Euro, we don't as you know. So it could easily be all change in Europe over the coming weeks, months and years.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Sakae on Fri May 29, 2015 7:25 am

Image

What can one say.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Lyria on Fri May 29, 2015 12:08 pm

Sakae wrote:
What can one say.


Mostly Eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwww comes to mind :reallyevil:
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