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2011 Italian GP Weekend

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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabon on Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:27 pm

Just in case, Macca has the fastest cars. Senna in fourth place? Toro Rosso can move it. Massa is faster than Alonso. Williams svx. Sauber should sell motorized wheelchairs. What's wrong with Kobayashi? HRT is six seconds (six!) slower than a Mac, for the love of Pete: a Formula Three is probably faster.

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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby _FoCuS_ on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:24 pm

I don't know if they were fastest at soft rubber. Because it seems like they prefer harder tyre more than it. They were fastest on harder and at the end of race. May be they can be good if they got good start.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Silver Fox on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:25 pm

Paolo 2 wrote:
Atonal wrote:Mr Jenson thinks that Schuey 'lost his memory'

http://en.espnf1.com/italy/motorsport/story/58826.html


I'm not the greatest of fans of Button the driver but I always thought that he was a sensible chap (by F1 standards), maybe he had a brain fade. Whatever happened, he should have kept quiet :roll:


+1 (and many others judging by the posts underneath that article)..... :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby DanyalDenyo on Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:07 am

Ciro Pabon wrote:Just in case, Macca has the fastest cars.


Image


No, RBR has the fastest cars. RBR said they optimized cars considering the weight of the fuel. They explained that was the reason why they looked like low-geared during qualis and even then they were the quickest. When the cars were at the lightest during the last stint Vettel already had an huge gap so he was probably just cruising to the chequered flag.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabon on Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:38 am

Well, I apologize. I thought that a car that has a smaller lap time was faster. My mistake.

Probably logic is not my strong suit. Now I see clearly that a car that laps 3 tenths slower is the faster one.

I also understand now that a car that achieves a lower top speed during qualifications has less fuel and, thus, less weight. I guess RBR top speeds were slower during tests and qualifications because they were lighter.

How absurd are the things I've taken for granted for 30 years! Thanks, I've been enlightened: now I see that the faster car is an HRT.

I'm going to abandon my main racing principle from now on ("Don't give me opinions, give me numbers") and replace it with a new motto: "Social sciences have a place in racing".
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Funkmother on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:34 am

It just goes to show Ciro, there's room to learn something new, even for you. Naturally, the fastest car is the first to reach the chequered flag. :evil:

I don't know what happened with Daniel but he was quite a few laps down. It seems likely STR brought him in and fixed damage suffered in the opening melee and then sent him out to gain experience albeit with a car that was damaged. Just speculation of course.

flatin wrote:... gave plenty of room to Lewis ...


I'm not complaining about Michael's driving but all the same, I can't agree that he gave Lewis plenty of room.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby AP on Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:54 am

Ciro Pabon wrote:Well, I apologize. I thought that a car that has a smaller lap time was faster. My mistake.


So you're saying: "Fastest Laptime during a race = Fastest Car" ?

I think one could debate this definition.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Dev on Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:06 am

A bit late, but here goes...

Vettel : Best drive of the season. He excelled himself, and not just because the Red Bull is a quick car. He is obviously delivering something above and beyond the performance of the car, just look at his teammate for comparison.

McLaren : Should have done better, but it seems they only had a quick car in clear air. Jenson once again did a good comeback race, with two great passes on Michael and Alonso. Hamilton meanwhile, had a more subdued race. Not sure if others saw this, but during the drivers' parade, when asked what his expectations are for the race, he just said 'to finish, the position isn't important'. Might explain why he drove far more cautiously, and I thought there were occasions when he could have gone past Schumi, if he was feeling braver, but didn't. Shame about the starts, as both cars could have been up there challenging Vettel.

Alonso : Didn't impress me, he seems to have lost his drive (forgive the pun) for some reason. Good thing the race ended when he did, otherwise he could have lost that podium (as he himself admitted).

Schumi : Drive of the day. Car was like a bloody rocket ship down the straights. Personally, while he did swerve a bit too much at times, I don't really have a problem with his driving. Where overtaking moves once led to broken front wings, at least he's getting past cleanly now. Good entertaining battle with Hamilton.

Massa : Faded as usual, although at least he could blame Webber this time.

STRs : Qualified badly, raced very well. Especially Algaeboy.

Di Resta and Senna : Good finishes, some points for their efforts.

Villain of the day : Luizzi. You could see it coming, just a question of how many victims would be involved. Interesting that he got a 5 place grid penalty when he almost always starts from the back. Unfortunately, if that is what's stated in the rule book, then that's the proper punishment. Personally, I would have made him start from across the Causeway for the Singapore GP :reallyevil: :reallyevil:

What might have been Driver of the Day : Rosberg. Who knows what he could have achieved with that rocket car of his.

All in all, a good eventful race. Roll on Singapore!
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Dev on Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:07 am

Sinister wrote:
Ross: Michael, you have to leave Lewis room, if you collide-

Michael: He'll get the blame. He always gets the blame for everything. It won't be a problem.
^o^ ^o^ ^o^ ^o^


That is true, sadly. :armchair:
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Gerhard Berger on Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:20 pm

Dev wrote:AAlonso : Didn't impress me, he seems to have lost his drive (forgive the pun) for some reason. Good thing the race ended when he did, otherwise he could have lost that podium (as he himself admitted).


You must be a very hard man to impress. Alonso did very well to get that car (3rd best car) onto the podium.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Gerhard Berger on Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:23 pm

Dev wrote:A bit late, but here goes...

Vettel : Best drive of the season. He excelled himself, and not just because the Red Bull is a quick car. He is obviously delivering something above and beyond the performance of the car, just look at his teammate for comparison.



It's impossible to perform beyond the performance of the car. He is however getting the maximum out of his car, unlike Webber and deserves alot of credit for that.

Funny how something like that impresses you though, yet Alonso beating Massa by a big margin is not impressive :)
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabon on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:05 pm

AP wrote:So you're saying: "Fastest Laptime during a race = Fastest Car" ?

I think one could debate this definition.


You could, of course, if you despise your opponents ability. You shouldn't as mechanics routinely use this figures to learn about their adversaries cars, assuming that their opponents (and their own drivers!) are driving to the limit at least once during the race (either by chance or by pure ability, as AP clarified more or less in the previous post).

Funkmother wrote:It just goes to show Ciro, there's room to learn something new, even for you. Naturally, the fastest car is the first to reach the chequered flag.


Of course you learn something each day, Funk, I'm not that kind of pr1ck (or at least I hope fervently I'm not), specially with people like you, guys, around. As we say down here: "You'll never go to bed without learning one more thing" ("Nunca te acostarás sin saber una cosa más").

However in this case Danyal Denyo is Denial Denyo, or so I think. Read it from the horse's mouth:

Journo: Did you worry that the ratio choice might put you on the back foot?

Horner: We felt that the hit was potentially in qualifying when you could use the DRS all the time, whereas for the race we were better placed. That ultimately proved to be the case. We dropped behind Fernando, who was really quick on the straight, and still managed to make it work. I think it was absolutely the right thing to do in the end.


Italics mine. I think it's clear as the deep blue sky in this sunny and beautiful morning I'm living (and learning) in. I learned this today: aerodynamic strategy is important at fast circuits.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby DanyalDenyo on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:31 pm

Ciro Pabon wrote:Well, I apologize. I thought that a car that has a smaller lap time was faster. My mistake.


If the outcome of a single lap will make any difference, yes that's true. However if there are 53 laps to be considered, the car that is quicker over all 53 laps is considered faster.

Ciro Pabon wrote:
Probably logic is not my strong suit. Now I see clearly that a car that laps 3 tenths slower is the faster one.

I also understand now that a car that achieves a lower top speed during qualifications has less fuel and, thus, less weight. I guess RBR top speeds were slower during tests and qualifications because they were lighter.


Let me explain it to you this way. Though I thought I had made myself clear the first time, guess I couldn't, sorry about that. If RBR wanted to achieve the "fastest lap" in the race and set up the gear ratios (and pretty much everything else) I think they could easily get the "fastest lap", but since "fastest lap" doesn't add any points, they optimized the car for the race distance and won the race. Not to mention they were also quickest in the qualifying. That's two timesheets (Race distance, Qualification) suggesting RBR has the fastest car. I don't see how under these circumstances one could argue that another car is faster, based on a time sheet that only shows the lap times when the cars are almost empty and the drivers are on different strategies. Vettel might as well be cruising to maintain the gap with Button, while McLarens might have been still pushing, that's an unknown so it's not logical to assume that even when the cars were empty they were driven on their limit.

Ciro Pabon wrote:
How absurd are the things I've taken for granted for 30 years! Thanks, I've been enlightened: now I see that the faster car is an HRT.

I'm going to abandon my main racing principle from now on ("Don't give me opinions, give me numbers") and replace it with a new motto: "Social sciences have a place in racing".


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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Ciro Pabon on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:57 pm

However, there is this fable by Aesop called "The Turtle and the Hare" you might want to read. In it, a slower animal (The Turtle) wins over a faster animal (The Hare). The purpose of this text is for children to learn that not always the faster one is the winner, but, hey, who am I to disagree? "Peace, from Mr. Waffles!", is all I have to say, Danyal.

Here we have a fable called "The Gorilla and The Pup"... in it, a little cute gorilla, loved by the audience, called Sin, manages to make one trillion posts, while the Pup... well, the Pup doesn't. I guess it's because he's an evil, disgustingly smart animal, a german shepherd, like the Pope. The moral: retro-propulsion (farting) works.
Last edited by Ciro Pabon on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 Italian GP Weekend

Postby Sinister on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:01 pm

:hihi: :hihi:
The Master Of Mind Games and the undisputed King Of Groaners :clap:


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